Hey guys! Welcome to another episode of Crushing it in Real Estate! This week’s podcast guest is Alice K who is the founder and CEO of Easy Trust Maker, a real estate investor in the Spokane, WA area and a property manager. Join us as we try to understand the complicated yet simple world of trust planning and Alice’s approach to Real Estate Investing!
[0:02] Intro: Hey everyone, and welcome to another episode of Crushing Real Estate with Bryan Pham, where we interview real estate professionals around the industry. If you enjoy this episode, please subscribe to the show and leave a very positive review. We released an episode every single Sunday, so stay tuned. Enjoy.
[0:27] Bryan: Hey guys, welcome to another episode of Crushing Real Estate. Today I have a very special guest, her name is Alice. Alice is a property manager, real estate investor, comes from a family of property managers, that’s basically how she got started. She’s also the CEO and founder of EasyTrustMaker.com. Alice, welcome to the show.
[0:49] Alice: Hello, thank you for having me.
[0:51] Bryan: Very excited to have you here today. I guess we’ll dive right in. Hey, Alice, how’d you get started in real estate?
[0:58] Alice: So, well, you kind of said it at the start there. So, I grew up around, my parents were property managers of motels and hotels, in Washington and Idaho. And then the last thing we managed was an RV park that 170 units and that was like the start. And we were always the people who made other people I say millions of dollars, and then we were the ones eating Taco Bell and they were eating like fancy wine and drinking, eating fancy cheese and drinking fancy wine. So, that’s how like, I realized that property was lucrative.
[1:32] Bryan: Are you sure you’re not the ones drinking fancy wine?
[1:36] Alice: Right now. I don’t do podcasts or any presentations without alcohol.
[1:43] Bryan: It gets help you get inside the mood, you know, but that’s cool. How long ago did you start into real estate on your own?
[1:51] Alice: It was 2016 and my parents were like, we’re going to retire, and they were going to retire from the RV Resort, it had been sold to another owner. So, we were always like managing it and it sold like, so my dad was the reason why it was worth so much more because he got the rents raise, he evicted like the tenants that weren’t that great and all that dirty work. And then we were in charge of like, managing the contractors who came in and put storage. So, that sold, and my mom was like, I’m not doing this anymore. And so, then that’s when I was like, well shoot, they’re going to retire and they don’t have like any money and so I bought a duplex and they lived in one side and we manage the other side and that’s how it started.
[2:31] Bryan: Okay, can you talk a little bit about where you buy your duplexes and, if you mind sharing numbers as well, so people know?
[2:37] Alice: Yeah, so I buy in Spokane, Washington, I do that, people are like, oh, is there a secret sauce, and I believe in buying either where your partner knows or where, you know, like, I hear this all the time, people are like, oh, I’m going to go to Florida and I’m like, if you’ve never been to Florida, like why the heck would you just, unless you want to vacation there? Number wise, you don’t totally hit the 1% rule here, you can make it hit the 1% rule after like a year or two. But I buy it because I know like I can look at a map from, on Google and I know like this is the good locations, these are the bad locations, and this is where I want to live.
[3:15] Bryan: Did you grow up in Spokane, Washington?
[3:17] Alice: Yeah, I was born in Oakland, lived on a replica by pirate ship and then we moved to Idaho, which is really close to, and the panhandle right next to Spokane, Washington.
[3:28] Bryan: Yeah, I just want to give our listeners a little background on yourself as well. Because I know, I mean right now, obviously, you live in San Francisco, you’re CEO of your company, and you’re investing back home, which is good. I think that anywhere that you choose to invest, it has to be somewhere that you can see yourself living and that you feel like you’re super comfortable, like investing in the area.
[3:52] Alice: I love it. Yes. And that’s another key thing, I’m not very into like properties that I don’t see myself living in. I’m kind of a sucker for curb appeal so if a property has good curb appeal, I’m more likely to bid more money on it. You being a flipper, you can sucker me into some deals?
[4:13] Bryan: At least, now, I know. So, what kind of criteria it is you look for when you make a purchase for your property? Like, let’s say a real estate agent sends you a deal, like what’s the first thing you look at and how do you go through your criteria and how do you run your numbers?
[4:30] Alice: Yeah, so I actually don’t just like look in it, I look in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho, I’ve looked in like Oakland but after looking at Oakland for quite a while, I was like, these aren’t the numbers I like, and the appreciation isn’t. So, I look at population, I think that’s the number one thing, is it going up? I see a lot of people like pitching like Alabama, and I’m like, I don’t see a lot of people, I don’t ever hear people like I’m going to go to Alabama. Spokane is like pretty flat, but it goes up. Like San Francisco, I would be like more than willing to buy there, if I could get more properties for my money. But I have like, I want to buy more things. So, yeah, population, job growth and it sounds like so obvious, but I think that’s really important because that’s what, how are people going to buy your properties when you want to sell? As far as the properties themselves, I made myself a spreadsheet when I got really obsessed with property. So, I have, and it calculates, it’s kind of like the bigger pockets calculator but mine is a lot faster, because with bigger pockets, you have to enter like, a ton of different variables and I want it to check, it checks for the 1% rule, it checks for, I should bring it up. I don’t not have a copy of it but these are just eyeball, yeah.
[5:43] Bryan: Can you explain to your listeners, what’s the 1% rule?
[5:47] Alice: You know, I don’t even know. Okay, so I’ll just say it like this, for $100,000, it should bring it $1,000 of rent.
[5:53] Bryan: That’s right,
[5:54] Alice: Or somewhere near it. I don’t even know; my formulas do for me now.
[5:59] Bryan: That’s the 1% rule. That’s good, though. I mean, in turn, I mean, that criteria aside, as you’re looking at the property, do you walk through your property yourself? Do you have people walk through it? Do you trust like, invest, I know you live in San Francisco, but how do you trust investing for remote? Like, you have your property managers walk through it, your real estate agent walks through it. And how did you make that decision, like just by investing out of state you know?
[6:28] Alice: Yeah, so if it’s in a town where I am, I will walk there myself, and if it’s out of town, I usually so my mom lives here, and I’m in Spokane right now. And I’ll call her, and I’ll say, hey, I think this property is awesome. And she’s really finicky, she’s, I call her my Asian landlady. I don’t know what I’d do without her. And she’ll be like, Alice, it’s so bad, I hate it here. It’s so bad, I’d never live here. And basically, you get like the gist of how she feels about it, just by the driving past. First, she drives past it and then if we like it, because it’s not too hot in some markets. Like if it’s a hot market, like right now, it’s pretty hot. I’ll just be like, let’s view it, let’s make an offer.
[7:05] Bryan: Yeah, booking is really good right now.
[7:07] Alice: Yeah. So, if sometimes the property owner like doesn’t want to show you, they just want the offer. So, I’ll make an offer contingent on an inspection. Yeah and then sometimes I’ll just ask my brother, my brother’s here too, he’ll, like, take a lot of photos for me and I’ll be like, you know what, let’s just go with it and that’s how I–
[7:25] Bryan: Do you also make decisions based off the disclosures and the inspections that you see?
[7:30] Alice: So, that’s where Washington is very different from California. In fact, I think California is an outlier because I’ve made offers and other states too. In California, you will get the disclosures ahead of time, they want to take, like sellers want that to not be a contingency but in Washington, me, the buyer or my partners when we’re buying together will buy the, we’ll put that as an inspection contingency.
[7:54] Bryan: Okay, so disclosure is not disclosed first, it is disclosed as a contingency inspection?
[8:02] Alice: Yes, so often, you’ll just give the asking price and that’s when you’ll figure out okay, there’s all these broken things, we have to ask for a discount.
[8:10] Bryan: Okay, wow. That’s, I didn’t know that, I learned something today. Okay, I mean, we walked through your portfolio right now, I understand you have a duplex in Spokane and you’re looking for more properties. How’d you get leads for properties, like do you talk to real estate agency, do you post ads, like, how do you do it?
[8:33] Alice: Yes, I’ve done a number of different things both in Oakland and San Francisco and then here. I found that like the off markets in the bay, you probably know this really well, like they tend to be overpriced, and I found better deals like through the MLS. In Spokane–. Or at least, I feel like that’s been my experience because like I get, I used to post on craigslist and then I get these people wanting outlandish amounts of money for their crummy properties or property that would take so much rehab costs. For Spokane, I have a mix of both MLS, and then also just knowing agents and then reaching out to them and being top of mind. I think the number one thing is making sure that they feel confident that you have money. And that used to be like a big question like, should I have the money or the deal, first? I’m a big proponent to like have the money first.
[9:25] Bryan: But nowadays, it’s pretty easy to do like hard money and everything that you can just borrow the proof of funds and show all these agents, hey, I’m actually a really big baller.
[9:38] Alice: I feel like people that aren’t in San Francisco, don’t do that as much better. It’s more, so the lender I’m working with right now, she’s so traditional and I had to teach her like different loan programs and she’s great, but–
[9:51] Bryan: Wait, you’re a lender and you have to teach her different loan programs?
[9:55] Alice: She’s a lender and like I had to tell her like this is the program I want and Californians didn’t know it, like they don’t know them here and I don’t quite know why that is, but it’s more like relaxed here.
[10:08] Bryan: Okay, I know, California is pretty known for its fast close, like how, what’s the average length of time of closing in Spokane?
[10:16] Alice: It’s not, all of Washington are like, besides Seattle, I feel like most of Washington, like there’s a lot of different places I’ve made offers. It’s about two months, so it’s 60 days. So, I try to make a little bit shorter, like 45 days, which is like, and even me, I’m just sitting here and I’m like, why can’t we get the loan documents? Why is the appraisal going to take two weeks to order? California, guys, we know what we’re doing, California hustling.
[10:47] Bryan: Yeah, I think California, the fastest I close, through a regular conventional loan is 21 days. You know?
[10:55] Alice: I didn’t want to do that. I was like, I’m ready to go, I got the cash, liquid.
[11:00] Bryan: Yeah. That’s really cool. Thanks, Alice. Let’s talk about how do you keep yourself motivated from time to time? Like, what, do you have any rituals that you follow, any morning routines? I know you’re ultra-motivated, Alice, I see you at every single meetup the past two years. So, how do you keep yourself motivated? How do you keep yourself, like what is your routine, you know?
[11:27] Alice: Yeah, so I used to be addicted to dating apps, and I just can’t and then I just came to terms that it’s not going to happen. So, now I’ve flipped all the dating apps, I put them in a useless, like folder on my iPhone. And then I switched it all with real estate app, so that the front page, so whenever I want to click on OK Cupid or hinge, I’m like, oh, Tinder, there’s only realtor.com or Zillow. Instead of swiping on people, I swipe on property. That’s the first thing like changing your phone is huge. If you can just take out those apps, you’re doing, you’re using. As far as motivation, like I think the inner motivation, my running joke, but I think it’s kind of serious and so I grew up on a replica of a pirate ship, I thought about this question beforehand, and I was like, I’m pretty sure this is it. And we sold the pirate ship, that was one of the deals I did, I sold it with my aunt, and it went viral. Like it went on Craigslist and then the news, like, some news reporter came and like, interviewed us. And yeah, we sold it for a song, but it went viral. And after that, I was just like, you know what, like, I’m done with boats. I’m done with boats and funky, funky pieces of property that like aren’t on pieces of land. And that’s where like my motivation comes from because I never want to be in a place where I’m living in an RV, which I’ve lived in RV, I’ve been in mobile home, an apartment, I didn’t know what central heating and air conditioning was until like, recently, I didn’t know how to use a dishwasher. And so, that’s where like, my passion for property comes in, that’s kind of what drives me.
[13:00] Bryan: Okay, so you just have natural drive without much routine to keep yourself in check? Okay.
[13:06] Alice: I think it is fear of failure too, if you inflict fear upon.
[13:11] Bryan: That’s really cool. I mean, you’re, that means you’re naturally motivated. You don’t need any kind of affirmation going on. Because like for myself, I wake up every morning, I knew a little bit affirmation, where I tell myself, I can do this, I got to find that deal, I’m going to talk to X amount, of agents. It’s really interesting listening to someone just as motivated in the real estate world, and have such an interesting morning routine and affirmation process, you know?
[13:43] Alice: I wonder what my affirmation is now that you say you have one? Usually, it’s just me flailing about, and I’m like, got to get to work.
[13:53] Bryan: It’s okay, I mean, you’re on a very good tracking you, your founder of a tech company, and you’re doing real estate investment. The future is really bright. I mean, let’s talk about what are your real estate goals for this year? And what’s your real estate goals five years from now? Can you walk us through year by year?
[14:15] Alice: Yeah. So, I usually think of like the bigger picture. When I was reading that question before, like talking with you right now, and I was thinking about it. So, I’ve been meeting with a lot of agents in town, that’s why I’m here and I’m not in the Bay right now but I’m going back to the Bay soon. I think I want to go bigger, so I was talking with some of the agents here, they’re like, we have tons of deals, we don’t have any dough. And I was like, well, I have a lot of friends with dough and they keep asking me to do deals with me. And I’m just like, no, no, I’d rather do it myself. So, I think I want to go bigger and like partner with someone. Do you know anyone like looking to partner? I have like friends asking all the time. And it is better here because when you could do a five unit plus, you end up getting the 6 to 7% cap rate. I’m pretty religious when I’m looking because I did an offer on a mobile home park last year, I believe I don’t even remember anymore. And like when you’re going with a commercial loan, it’s much more, strict. The properties I do are like duplexes, and under four or four or less so that’s more wishy washy, right, you’re just like it’s an emotional buy. But with commercial, like, I want to get a long term, like a 10-year loan on it.
[15:26] Bryan: 10-year commercial loan balloon?
[15:28] Alice: Yes, with the balloon at the 10 and so with that I have to be like really finicky, like it has to hit the 6% cap rate for the mobile home park and bank commercial loans have certain requirements. So, and I think that’s the right way to go because you can add value and you guarantee the return.
[15:48] Bryan: Okay. When you mentioned 6% return, are you talking about 6% in A class, B class neighborhoods only, or would the 6% also include like C and D class?
[15:59] Alice: So, me, personally, like when I’m not in places like the Bay or high growth areas I really like B, and I kind of avoid C, I’m not very pro C, I’m very A, B. So, here, it’s like six, seven and the places in Washington, if you’re in Seattle, like it’s going to be less, of course. But like, we don’t have the gentrification in Spokane, and like, in other towns, I’m sure like your viewers or listeners, they’re from smaller towns, like have they seen their towns gentrify? Like they probably haven’t, unlike where you live, like Oakland, like that’s booming. So, if you were to pick and like the kind of the C classes in Washington, you’re probably going to look at 10, 12%. But it’s just like, I don’t see the growth that out of state people project. Like, I’ll see the California come into town and be like, oh, this is going to boom, like there’s a place here called Kendall Yards and it was supposed to boom for ten years or five years and it’s just like, I drove through there and I’m like this is still like not a place I want to live.
[17:04] Bryan: You, know, it’s funny. I talked to a lot of people who live in Oakland for a long period of time and they always say the same thing. It’s like, oh, yeah, we waited 10 years, it didn’t boom, it only boom, like last five years,
[17:15] Alice: Oh, really? I never really thought about the 10-year period.
[17:20] Bryan: Yeah. So, that’s pretty interesting to hear. I think that’s very optimistic, the investors, the optimistic view the investors have, is like anywhere investable, super justify, increasing value very quickly but and then people have to remember like real estate is a slow man’s game. It’s so slow, you know, you have to be patient for it.
[17:43] Alice: It is, I’m so glad you said that. Because I feel like when I go to these meetups, it feels like everyone’s doing all these things and I’m like the slug. And then I get the shiny penny syndrome, which I can get into later if we hit one of your questions down here.
[18:02] Bryan: Yeah, it’s good that you’re not picking a niche inside real estate. I think when people first started in real estate, they always, oh, my God, I 18:13 [inaudible] make so much money. Oh, my God, he bought an apartment, he makes so much money. I feel like having the shiny object syndrome, like actually pulls you further away from your goals. I think that if you sit back and just pick a niche that fits your personality best, I think whatever you pick, you’re going to be able to succeed in it. If you stick with it for an extensive period of time you put in the work necessary to get to the expert level, you know?
[18:38] Alice: I love that. Okay, so I look at Facebook a lot and I follow all these groups and that you just said that. So, this guy, he was this dorky guy, I’m not going to say names. I don’t even remember his name, but he’s on my Facebook. And he was like, he’s been in every like meetup that has to do with, with land development, right? And I just see this guy and I’ve been seeing struggle for a year, and he finally did a deal. And I was so happy for him. And it’s like, this is a guy, you’d have no egos, there’s no way this guy is going to make a deal. And he did it. And so, I definitely believe like just sticking with it. And he stuck with it and he did the mailers and he knocked on doors, he did all the dirty work, made it and I was like if this guy can do it, then anyone can do it.
[19:18] Bryan: Just got to pick your niche. Okay, what kind of advice would you give someone that’s getting into real estate?
[19:25] Alice: Okay, I don’t want to give any really stupid advice because I hear a lot of stupid advice. I wrote this out ahead of time. Okay. I got like 10 pieces of advice, and they’re good. They seem good, unless you’ve already conquered, I feel. So, if you’re to do this, read a ton and get really pumped. Like, I’m sure you’re already pumped. If you have anyone listening to this, they’re already pumped. And then two, this one’s from Daniel and he say, if you don’t know Daniel, or if you haven’t interviewed him yet, maybe he’d be a good one to get, I ask some really stupid questions. I asked stupid questions every day. Like I still, I’ve been on a million contract so many times, I have closed on multiple properties and I still just like, who like, okay, like when you’re closing a property, I was like, do I have to send the tenant agreement to escrow or the agent? Like who’s going to get that and make sure that that shows up in my closing document? Because I’m like, what if the tenant pays rent ahead of time. And so, I just learned today that in Washington, it’s the escrow who deals with that. So, if you’re in another State, you won’t have escrow, you’ll have maybe a lawyer deal with that, or whatever your State. So, ask your stupid questions.
[20:33] Bryan: Nothing’s wrong with stupid questions, that’s how you learn.
[20:36] Alice: Yes, exactly. And you taught me a lot of things with my stupid flip board questions so thank you for that. Number three is when you’re forming your team, and so in real estate, I feel like a lot of people say like, I’m going to form a team and all that means is like, it’s a bunch of 10, 99 people who, like you’re friends with. I feel like, you want to pick people who aren’t sketchy, and you want to be like really critical of who you pick on your team, and vet them as possible. And I believe you should, like be friends with the people on your team. So, like our handy men and everyone that we work with here. So, I have like a big team, of people I can call on, they’re all in like the refrigerator here and in my phone. Like my mom will feed them, like we invite them to holiday parties, like they shouldn’t be like your slave or something, they should be your friend. And so, I’m a big proponent of that, the other ones I have. And then okay, this is my big one, ignore the shiny penny. So, what you just said, the shiny object. So, you’re going to hear, whoever your viewers are, if they haven’t started yet, they’re going to hear so many awesome ideas of all these people making like I just got an invite and I think this is like our own meetup, like zero to seven figures and I’m like this is so, I don’t want to be that guy but like, this is a ridiculous title for a meetup. And this is I think, one of our meetups, and I’m just like, please don’t get me these grandiose ideas, like start small and just do one easy thing. So, you can get excited about it and like not feel like a failure.
[22:07] Bryan: So small wins.
[22:08] Alice: Yes. So, I climb and there was a study and it showed that you should like, if you’re in like a rock climbing gym, or whatever, you should do the easy routes first so you feel good and then you can do the harder ones.
[22:18] Bryan: I absolutely agree with that one.
[22:20] Alice: Those are my few, that’s less than 10 but the rest are redundant, so–.
[22:25] Bryan: I definitely agree. Like having those small wins really add up and they do and through time, you gain momentum too. That’s how I feel. That’s good though, I mean, I know that you currently own rentals, what are some of the challenges that you face owning rental properties?
[22:46] Alice: Okay, I face so many. So, I managed write these things as well like with my family. And so, like the little thing, like we had a call yesterday. And I don’t like to see like, I don’t want see people like I’m lazy and I just got out of work. And so, my mom is like, hey, she’s like the main property manager. And like we’ve always managed things together in the RV Resort everywhere we’ve worked, she’s like, go fix this door. So, I called my brother, like Mason, can you drive over here? So, we show up at the tenant house in our crummy car, hold of the door, is this like little stuff? It’s like, should I hire someone to do this or just going to be short enough amount of time or just like I’ll fix myself? Oh, here we early screwing and stuff and at the end, I’m like, we blew an hour. I should just hire someone to do this. I’m figuring out like the balance of like, when should I hire someone versus do it myself. That’s one and then of course, deal finding and then money, Of course, everyone has the money deal finding.
[23:44] Bryan: That’s what you stated earlier, find the money first then the deal. The opposite of what most people will suggest.
[23:50] Alice: Yes. I feel like, I think the way to find the money first, it’s like you excite people who make good money and are lazy and want that feeling of ownership, like and are sick of stocks. I’m pretty sick of stocks and I had a whole bunch. I’m like I lost $100 yesterday, this is bogus.
[24:11] Bryan: I know it’s not too bad, Alice.
[24:13] Alice: Thank you. I just don’t like losing money.
[24:17] Bryan: Okay, cool. I mean, to go back a little bit, your family, how many units, you and your family manage?
[24:25] Alice: So yeah, we used to do 170, in motels we did like what was 50 or something. So, we’re used to like big scale, but the ones I personally don’t do, I just don’t like a few four units. But we’re like expanding as we speak, I’m under contract for more units. So, I didn’t want to expand until I figured out like how are we going to scale, and do we have the equipment? So, like I’ve had to buy like lawn mowers and all this stuff and that’s why I don’t believe in buying multiple locations. You’ll hear from these syndicates like we’re going to buy, or whatever, 30 helps us here and 20 here and I’m just like, like just buy the hundred houses in one spot and 100 units and then you have it all there.
[25:05] Bryan: Very optimal, right because you have everything in one place?
[25:08] Alice: Yes, I do not like lawn mower shopping.
[25:11] Bryan: Yeah, I can agree with you on that one. Let’s talk about what if you did your real estate career over again, what would you have done differently?
[25:24] Alice: This one is like not under my control. But I would have been more like woke sooner. So, I lived in Seattle and I don’t know how to fix this one, but I had money and I was like putting in the stocks. But something I can control, like I had money I put in the stocks, but I remember seeing all these properties like foreclosed, foreclosed, now they’re worth a million bucks. They were on sale for like 400,000 I’m just like, wow, I can’t even go back to Seattle, like when I do it just hurts me. I didn’t make that much, and I could have bought all this stuff. What would I have done to–? I would have cut out people who are really negative, who like don’t have my vision. You can’t like, cut out family but I would have, like I had so many tech friends who were like what are you doing? And they said I was stupid when I was under contract. And I was like listening to them and was getting second thoughts, I’m glad I didn’t actually listen to them so like not listening to people who aren’t doing great things.
[26:23] Bryan: I think the circle that you associate yourself with really influenced the way you think, you are the sum of five people you hang out with.
[26:32] Alice: Have you ever, okay, you should do this thing and everyone who’s doing this, I’ve never heard this before. Take the salaries of all the people, the five people, I got the exact, my salary is equal to the five people and one of those makes zero dollars, it’s a family member and I was like oh my god, so factors in and it’s totally true.
[26:52] Bryan: Actually, I’ve never heard that one before. I’ve heard the sum of the five people you hang out with, but you took it one step further, sum of my five salaries you hang out with.
[27:02] Alice: I know, I’m shallow but I’m honest.
[27:08] Bryan: Alice, what is your favorite book?
[27:11] Alice: Okay, I was thinking about this. I have a lot of favorites. Of course, you get to do the Rich Dad Poor Dad, but everyone has done that song and dance. So, I’m not going to say that. There’s one I read recently called The Gambler, have you read it?
[27:21] Bryan: The Gambler, well, not yet, what is it about?
[27:23] Alice: Okay, so it’s about, so if you watched The Aviator, okay, I love The Aviator, so The Aviator is about Howard Hughes and I like love Howard Hughes because their risks. So, this guy’s about Kirk Kerkorian. Kirk Kerkorian was a real estate mogul in Las Vegas, he didn’t start out like that he started out like with no money. The Gambler is an awesome book. Think of it like that Howard Hughes type story but another guy, and so he’s passed away. He passed away in like the 2000s, but it was an awesome book, it’s super inspiring, it’s just like, wow, like, you can go from zero to something. And it’s also this too, I used to read a lot of how to books and you probably noticed this, they like repeat. Now I really liked biographies, they’re really good reads,
[28:07] Bryan: So good, I agree. So, Alice, I know you have a startup called EasyTrustMaker.com, what was the inspiration behind the startup? Why did you decide to do it?
[28:20] Alice: So, this was twofold, it was because of real estate and because I got obsessed with death, literally. Great question. Okay. So, I bought, the first one, I bought this property, and I bought another property and then by the time I got the second one, I was like, oh, my parents rely on me like, and they’re my property managers like, what’s going to happen, like, who’s going to manage the properties when I’m dead? And so, then I got obsessed with, it was that too. And then also, I was a real estate agent at the time, like, actively, and doing reverse searches and probate in San Francisco. And it was like, the creepiest thing, and I’m just reverse searching everybody, and looking at people’s like property. And I was like, this is creepy, oh, my God, then my grandfather died. And that was really, I was like, holy crap. Now it’s like going to go to probate. But it didn’t, because he had a living trust. With all that combined, I was like, I went to a lawyer, and I’m like, I’m going to hire a lawyer to make my living trust. I was super excited, because I was like, adulting. I’m going to get this thing done. So, I did it, and it costed it $2,000 and at the end, I get this document. And I’m like, are you kidding me? Like, my name was in all caps, because he just like, entered my name into a system and it pumped out at a generic template. And that’s where I was like, this should be cheaper, easier and better. Like there’s other companies that do this online, but I was like, these are still crappy, so that’s how the idea came about. That lawyer was a rip off.
[29:46] Bryan: Wow, you’re so talented, CEO–
[29:50] Alice: It was pain, I don’t know if I’d do it again. But if you haven’t done it, whether it’s me or someone else, definitely do it for your properties.
[30:00] Bryan: Okay, we’ll mentioned down in the show notes. Yeah, Alice, as we you know, at the end of our show, how can the viewers find out more about you and how can they reach you?
[30:10] Alice: Yeah, so they can reach me at Alicejoyk@gmail. com, or you can just Google my name Alice Karsevar, which is KARSEVAR, all my information is Google friendly. I can’t get married now; my SEO so good.
[30:33] Bryan: All right. Thank you for your time, Alice. I really enjoyed this interview, I appreciate it.
[30:38] Alice: Thank you. Good luck. Are you flipping right now or?
[30:42] Bryan: Yeah, we’ll talk a little bit, thank you Alice.
[30:46] Alice: Thank you.